Comments on: Smoke-free work & bars, who are the real losers? http://www.seanpaune.com/2007/08/30/smoke-free-work-bars-who-are-the-real-losers/ Fri, 20 Nov 2009 09:37:02 -0600 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.6 hourly 1 By: DanI in K-ville http://www.seanpaune.com/2007/08/30/smoke-free-work-bars-who-are-the-real-losers/comment-page-1/#comment-21069 DanI in K-ville Thu, 06 Dec 2007 06:20:39 +0000 http://www.seanpaune.com/2007/08/30/smoke-free-work-bars-who-are-the-real-losers/#comment-21069 I was very sick as a child because my dad smoked in the house, so i know how it feels when people smoke around me, but i believe it is their Right to be able to smoke where ever they want. if i go to a restaurant, i KNOW there are smokers there, i understand it, so i get a non smoking table as far away from it, or i just suck it up, if i wanna eat there, i don't care if their is smoke. If anything, make it where on the smoker side more vents to suck up the smoke, my dad did that in the basement of our house so it wouldn't come upstairs to where i was at. Or make it during a certain time where they cannot smoke, when most likely children will be there, but after a certain time, people may smoke. Employees know when they apply that a place is smoke free or not, if they have a problem with they should not apply there, or talk to the manager to work the shifts with the less amount of smokers. and the breaks employees get for smoking... i know people that STARTED smoking so they could get breaks. thats the employers fault, complain to them about making mandatory breaks for all. I was very sick as a child because my dad smoked in the house, so i know how it feels when people smoke around me,
but i believe it is their Right to be able to smoke where ever they want.
if i go to a restaurant, i KNOW there are smokers there, i understand it, so i get a non smoking table as far away from it, or i just suck it up, if i wanna eat there, i don’t care if their is smoke.
If anything, make it where on the smoker side more vents to suck up the smoke, my dad did that in the basement of our house so it wouldn’t come upstairs to where i was at.
Or make it during a certain time where they cannot smoke,
when most likely children will be there, but after a certain time, people may smoke.
Employees know when they apply that a place is smoke free or not, if they have a problem with they should not apply there, or talk to the manager to work the shifts with the less amount of smokers.

and the breaks employees get for smoking… i know people that STARTED smoking so they could get breaks. thats the employers fault, complain to them about making mandatory breaks for all.

]]> By: Sean P. Aune http://www.seanpaune.com/2007/08/30/smoke-free-work-bars-who-are-the-real-losers/comment-page-1/#comment-19865 Sean P. Aune Fri, 31 Aug 2007 01:17:06 +0000 http://www.seanpaune.com/2007/08/30/smoke-free-work-bars-who-are-the-real-losers/#comment-19865 Shari - Maybe I didn't make it clear enough. When a bar still has smoking, the non-smokers can go into the bar at any time of their choosing. When smoking is banned, the smokers do tend to leave (as evidenced by my Uncle's experience) and not be replaced by non-smokers. The voting in of the ban gives them the perceived "option" of going to the bar, but evidence supports that all those who vote for it don't choose the option to follow through with their newly won "smoke free" environment. Shari – Maybe I didn’t make it clear enough. When a bar still has smoking, the non-smokers can go into the bar at any time of their choosing.

When smoking is banned, the smokers do tend to leave (as evidenced by my Uncle’s experience) and not be replaced by non-smokers.

The voting in of the ban gives them the perceived “option” of going to the bar, but evidence supports that all those who vote for it don’t choose the option to follow through with their newly won “smoke free” environment.

]]> By: Kai http://www.seanpaune.com/2007/08/30/smoke-free-work-bars-who-are-the-real-losers/comment-page-1/#comment-19864 Kai Fri, 31 Aug 2007 01:10:44 +0000 http://www.seanpaune.com/2007/08/30/smoke-free-work-bars-who-are-the-real-losers/#comment-19864 I grew up around people who smoke... I'm not particularly allergic to it, but I don't like the smell. In public places I don't frown upon smokers--it's none of my beeswax what other people suck into their lungs so long as they don't puff it out right in my face. It can boil down to tolerance, I suppose. Not being able to smoke in a bar turns off a lot of smokers... after all, it's a place for entertainment. So, I agree with you and Shari. This ordinance isn't particularly appropriate. On the other hand, I had to read some news articles on health lifestyles for a class several weeks ago and I can across this one in CNN, " Smokers drag down a workplace, study says": http://www.cnn.com/2007/LIVING/worklife/08/14/cb.smokers/ I have no personal experience with regards to that because I'm a student... but I remembered it when I read your blog today. ^_^ I grew up around people who smoke… I’m not particularly allergic to it, but I don’t like the smell. In public places I don’t frown upon smokers–it’s none of my beeswax what other people suck into their lungs so long as they don’t puff it out right in my face. It can boil down to tolerance, I suppose.

Not being able to smoke in a bar turns off a lot of smokers… after all, it’s a place for entertainment. So, I agree with you and Shari. This ordinance isn’t particularly appropriate.

On the other hand, I had to read some news articles on health lifestyles for a class several weeks ago and I can across this one in CNN, ” Smokers drag down a workplace, study says”: http://www.cnn.com/2007/LIVING/worklife/08/14/cb.smokers/

I have no personal experience with regards to that because I’m a student… but I remembered it when I read your blog today. ^_^

]]> By: Shari http://www.seanpaune.com/2007/08/30/smoke-free-work-bars-who-are-the-real-losers/comment-page-1/#comment-19863 Shari Fri, 31 Aug 2007 00:48:29 +0000 http://www.seanpaune.com/2007/08/30/smoke-free-work-bars-who-are-the-real-losers/#comment-19863 You undermine your economic reason when you say that non-smokers should stay away from the bars/clubs if they don't like smoking. Either way, business is lost. The only question is whether or not more business is lost one way or the other. Also, honestly, do you really think money is more important than public health concerns? This is what keeps the cost of cigarettes low in Japan and the number of smokers high. The government gets tax revenue from it. The main problem, which I'm sure you're well aware of, is that second-hand smoke indoors is difficult to escape or effectively remove. While I personally think that smoking shouldn't be prohibited in bars, clubs, or entertainment-based businesses, I think offices are another issue entirely though since everyone needs to work and you can't have a lot of idiosyncratic rule-making in this regard. Also, people don't have infinite options as to where they can work and no one should have to suffer in a job they need because others can't go outside for 10 minutes to smoke occasionally. It harms the smoking employee not at all to go somewhere else to smoke and smoking actually interrupts and reduces employee productivity. If you're going to talk economics as part of the smoking/non-smoking debate, then consider that the frequent breaks smokers take to smoke mean they work less time. I know this because at my former office, smokers smoked and chatted as many as 5 times a day for 5-10 minutes at a time while the rest of us never got any breaks besides lunch. Also, if you do a search on the internet, there are plenty of studies that show how smoking and being a smoker result in a lot of lost money for employers. It's not just one study, it's a great many. Smoking in offices is not like the bar/club situation where you don't need to be there and can opt not to patronize those businesses. I think your opinion is heavily influenced by your being a smoker (which you still are, even if you only smoke on occasion) and you're not viewing it objectively. For the record, I hate second-hand smoke and have never smoked but strongly feel smokers have the right to indulge as freely as possible as long as they don't infringe on the ability of others to pursue necessary tasks. I do pick and choose restaurants, coffee shops, and whatnot which are non-smoking but don't be-grudge those that allow it. I just avoid those places. I figure the economics of making your establishment one or the other will sort things out. You undermine your economic reason when you say that non-smokers should stay away from the bars/clubs if they don’t like smoking. Either way, business is lost. The only question is whether or not more business is lost one way or the other. Also, honestly, do you really think money is more important than public health concerns? This is what keeps the cost of cigarettes low in Japan and the number of smokers high. The government gets tax revenue from it.

The main problem, which I’m sure you’re well aware of, is that second-hand smoke indoors is difficult to escape or effectively remove. While I personally think that smoking shouldn’t be prohibited in bars, clubs, or entertainment-based businesses, I think offices are another issue entirely though since everyone needs to work and you can’t have a lot of idiosyncratic rule-making in this regard. Also, people don’t have infinite options as to where they can work and no one should have to suffer in a job they need because others can’t go outside for 10 minutes to smoke occasionally. It harms the smoking employee not at all to go somewhere else to smoke and smoking actually interrupts and reduces employee productivity. If you’re going to talk economics as part of the smoking/non-smoking debate, then consider that the frequent breaks smokers take to smoke mean they work less time. I know this because at my former office, smokers smoked and chatted as many as 5 times a day for 5-10 minutes at a time while the rest of us never got any breaks besides lunch. Also, if you do a search on the internet, there are plenty of studies that show how smoking and being a smoker result in a lot of lost money for employers. It’s not just one study, it’s a great many.

Smoking in offices is not like the bar/club situation where you don’t need to be there and can opt not to patronize those businesses. I think your opinion is heavily influenced by your being a smoker (which you still are, even if you only smoke on occasion) and you’re not viewing it objectively.

For the record, I hate second-hand smoke and have never smoked but strongly feel smokers have the right to indulge as freely as possible as long as they don’t infringe on the ability of others to pursue necessary tasks. I do pick and choose restaurants, coffee shops, and whatnot which are non-smoking but don’t be-grudge those that allow it. I just avoid those places. I figure the economics of making your establishment one or the other will sort things out.

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